Forum

Hi again...

i have postet a recap of what we discussed here in the german Oase.com threat:

http://forum.oase.com/showthread.php?p=1279252&posted=1#post1279252

I hope you guys don´t take my appearance here in a wrong way, I did not mean to be stubborn, not ignorant and did not claim that my judgment was spot on.
I really appreciate all comments that helped understanding the situation better.

At the same time, I hope that we all step away from this localizm a little bit and help each other out at the beach.

Feel free to approach me whenever you see me...the invitation for a beer or a coffee was genuine.

@Evan  
I don't see where I stated that I would drif into the protected area on purpose.
I am being open about the assessment of the situation I made.
I also acknowledged that this was off.
At the same time I asked the question where this information would have been available. In your rant your ignore to answer this constructive and serious question.m

@Thijs
Munchhausen is a figure that pathologically lied...I don't see how that's applicable to me or contributing this good discussion.
Can you tell me why my evaluation was stupid....I obviously did not think it was.

@Jan
Why do you call me ignorant? I'm facing the music here and I'm listening to your points.
Let's understand that kitesurfing is a sport that involves certain risks. We can only mitigate risks if we understand them and learn about local conditions.

Thanks Marc.

I've tried, in more or less subtitle ways, to point the discussion away from nationalities.
Let's agree on the following:
- Germans are likely to have less knowledge about a spot than locals
- you are more likely to be in trouble if you're not local, i.e. lack local knowledge
- people have a tendency to be receivable for tips and criticism...brought in a respectful way from people they respect

The map is great, thank you. But the wind direction indicating a no go is NNW not NW.  it might be a slight difference, but for me, there seemed to be a "PlanC" with the forcasted and prevailing conditions: drifting to Oostvoorne. 3,5 km roughly one hour considering drift and wind, unpleasant, but doable.

I have now learnt my lesson. But I'm not sure where, if not in this discussion, I could have learnt that NW winds have to be considered offshore @ Slufter. Is this indicated on the info-board?

@Jan

http://youtu.be/833mqHagOJA
Geil!

@Karel
I'll take the events on board the next time I face similar conditions!

@all.
Don't be haters... You'll be strangers to other spots eventually. Embrace it and be a role model...not a dick!

@Bart
You're generalizing... The wind wasn't exactly offshore. Plus: you're cutting your own flash. Plus: "they" will keep coming...if you mean inexperienced kiters.

@Marc
It's a fact that the Dutch kite spots are huighly frequented by Germans and it's likely that you are lacking local knowledge, if you're only here twice a year.

@all
And I'm not kidding here.... NW winds are pushing me straight to Oostvoorne... How do you define "offshore winds"? I don't want to be a troll here.... But I honestly judged the conditions differently.
B
@Evan
By the sounds of it, there were many locals around who knew to report about German license plates. I spoke to dutchies and to some Germans whom I would consider "regulars"... No one shared any concerns. Maybe that's a kite surfer "too cool for school" thing.

@Marc
I like a good argument and I'm not too shy to be in the line of fire. Plus: I think it helps the kite community in NL to move a little closer...and I'm including the duitsers as well as the belgiums!

@Jan
That would not explain the "invasion" in Brouwersdam!

The lack of local knowledge is spread throughout the whole kitesurf--community. Locals should be easy to approach for strangers, for advise or just a fun chat.
This approach works extremely well with whitewater kayaking, diving and backcountry skiing. We should learn from them and not from the gol-surf-community!

@ Markus,

Dat zal ik graag

@ kitehigher

Usually yes

Hi Guys,

mijn Naam is Jonas...en ik ben duitser. Ik woon bijna all vijf jaar in Rotterdam...

But let me do this in English...I can get my point across better.

The discussion you guys are having here is an important one, under many different angles:

1. Why would people kite in obviously dangerous conditions? (offshore wind, strong current)
I was at Maasvlakte yesterday. I kited outside the pond when the wind dropped and drifted off towards Ooosvoorne. This happened because I tried to help a friend who was in distress. The only reason I could rescue myself was fairly good local knowledge...and a bit of luck, to be fair.

The conditions yesterday were exceptionally, the wind dropped from around 20 knots to below 10 in under 15 minutes and, because of the spring tide, the current was stronger than usually. The apparent wind was blowing side-shore towards the Nature Reserve and the beach in Oostvoorne, not straight offshore. The current was pushing in the same direction, when the first 7 kiter got into distress.

I would not consider myself an idiot, and I believe that most of the kiters out there were taking a conscious and fair decision by the time they went out. Conditions looked manageable and the waves and wind only really kicked in badly after the first seven kiters were rescued.

2. Are the Germans the bigger idiots?
I have my troubles with some of the tendencies and suggested solutions here in this threat. Do the Germans have to leave every injured snowboarder in Winterberg bleeding on the slope? Should the Spaniards leave every dutchy suffocate in their own vomit at Costa Brava? Does the Bergwacht not move out, if an avalanche took 10 tourists down, despite explicit warnings, not to leave the piste? 
I believe that we are better off acknowledging that we are all fellow sports men (and women, obviously). Suggesting to leave people drown because they misjudged the conditions is not exactly fair game.
It was suggested to sell the missing board on Maarktplaats instead of returning it to the owner. Let me share one thought: If I was the guy missing his board, reading this comment, I would never ever listen to a local at the beach again, telling me that it is too dangerous to kite right now, whilst 100 people are on the water. However, if the guy who lost his board, got it back with an explanation on what has happened, what went wrong, and what to do better…and the strong advise to make a huge donation to KNRM, he would probably take that advise on board for the next time.
Don´t be haters guys, you are also guests in other countries every now and then. Let´s look at us as kiters, and not Germans, Frisians, Brabanders…
You don´t change our educate people by pointing fingers.


3. Will we avoid accidents with drastic fines?
I think, in all fairness, guys… you are cutting yourself in your own flesh.


See me at the water...happy to talk about this...even in dutch...spreeken gaat beter dan schrijven!

Can you give me an answer to the following questions please?

1. Why did you choose the "Slufter" to go kiting?

2. Why do you think that there were only foreigners (as far as I know) to be rescued by the KNRM?

Hi Marc,

I can try:
Slufter as such is an amazing spot...when I got on the water it was forecasted to be around 20 knots for the next 2 hours, later the wind would pick up drastically. I misjudged the current, I did not think the spring tide would have such a crazy effect. I only crashed the kite because I was helping a friend who did not know the spot as good.

The report speaks of one English gentlemen and I personally talked to to one Dutchman who was rescued. It is a long weekend in Germany, so there were more Germans around than on normal weekends, not even speaking about weekdays. I believe that lack of local knowledge led to this situation.

I believe, that we, as kitesurf-community or, in the wider sense, sportsmen, should help and educate each other.

Thanks Karel! If someone feels to have a chat about this over a beer or a coffee, stop by my van when you see me... White Renault Master with a roof rag

Hi Guys,

mijn Naam is Jonas...en ik ben duitser. Ik woon bijna all vijf jaar in Rotterdam...

But let me do this in English...I can get my point across better.

The discussion you guys are having here is an important one, under many different angles:

1. Why would people kite in obviously dangerous conditions? (offshore wind, strong current)
I was at Maasvlakte yesterday. I kited outside the pond when the wind dropped and drifted off towards Ooosvoorne. This happened because I tried to help a friend who was in distress. The only reason I could rescue myself was fairly good local knowledge...and a bit of luck, to be fair.

The conditions yesterday were exceptionally, the wind dropped from around 20 knots to below 10 in under 15 minutes and, because of the spring tide, the current was stronger than usually. The apparent wind was blowing side-shore towards the Nature Reserve and the beach in Oostvoorne, not straight offshore. The current was pushing in the same direction, when the first 7 kiter got into distress.

I would not consider myself an idiot, and I believe that most of the kiters out there were taking a conscious and fair decision by the time they went out. Conditions looked manageable and the waves and wind only really kicked in badly after the first seven kiters were rescued.

2. Are the Germans the bigger idiots?
I have my troubles with some of the tendencies and suggested solutions here in this threat. Do the Germans have to leave every injured snowboarder in Winterberg bleeding on the slope? Should the Spaniards leave every dutchy suffocate in their own vomit at Costa Brava? Does the Bergwacht not move out, if an avalanche took 10 tourists down, despite explicit warnings, not to leave the piste? 
I believe that we are better off acknowledging that we are all fellow sports men (and women, obviously). Suggesting to leave people drown because they misjudged the conditions is not exactly fair game.
It was suggested to sell the missing board on Maarktplaats instead of returning it to the owner. Let me share one thought: If I was the guy missing his board, reading this comment, I would never ever listen to a local at the beach again, telling me that it is too dangerous to kite right now, whilst 100 people are on the water. However, if the guy who lost his board, got it back with an explanation on what has happened, what went wrong, and what to do better…and the strong advise to make a huge donation to KNRM, he would probably take that advise on board for the next time.
Don´t be haters guys, you are also guests in other countries every now and then. Let´s look at us as kiters, and not Germans, Frisians, Brabanders…
You don´t change our educate people by pointing fingers.


3. Will we avoid accidents with drastic fines?
I think, in all fairness, guys… you are cutting yourself in your own flesh.


See me at the water...happy to talk about this...even in dutch...spreeken gaat beter dan schrijven!